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Steroids in baseball

John Ebel Posted on Wed Dec 08 07:17:28 CST 2004

Just had to say _something_ about the baseball steroid scandal going on right now. But instead of the typical boring "it's tarnishing the sport yadda yadda", let's play a little game --

Co-main-culprit Giambi had a real bad case of 'patellar tendinitis' in his knee last year. This is a classic effect of performance enhancing drugs - it's been called "the runny nose of steroids". Now I'm of course not saying that all of the following players have used roids - some probably have, some probably haven't, as you can of course experience the injury without steroids. But I find it extraordinarily fun to use very small quantities of evidence to speculate on others' ethics and vices. So here's the list of the baseball players who've had particularly bad and/or chronic cases of patellar tendinitis in the last several years:

Jose Vidro
Brad Fullmer
Pudge Rodriguez
Lance Berkman
Brian Jordan
Fernando Tatis
Bill Mueller
JD Drew

Of course, the worst case in all of baseball would probably have to be Mcgwire. It's the injury that decimated his last couple seasons and ended his career.

Back

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by Kurt Hoeman

McGwire was not using a steroid though!!!! He was not using a substance on the banned list.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by dan

and nicotine is not a drug? just 'cus it's not banned doesn't mean....

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by Jim Drewes

Hey... can't believe I know something about baseball that Kurt doesn't..

McGwire WAS using a steroid. He was using Androstenedione, which is an androgenic steroid that basically increases testosterone levels, like many other steroids do.

Now... Bonds and the others were taking an anabolic steroid, which is usually illegal and is almost always only available for health reasons. However, the steroid McGwire took is banned by the NCAA and IOC. The fact that it isn't banned by the MLB doesn't make McGwire's steroid use a non-issue.

And actually, to play along with Ebel's game, I'd say that many many many mlb players use "steroids." The thing is, most people associate the word steroids with the illegal, hard, anabolic steroids that cause tons of side effects or even death. Andro, which McGwire was using, IS legal. Its an unregulated non-FDA approved suppliment. I read one estimate that said 50-80 percent of pro football players use these sort of legal steroids. The REAL question is, should performance enhancing drugs in general be used? Should it just be limited to drugs with harmful side effects?

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by Kurt Hoeman

Thanks jimmy I knew that exactly, however all I was saying is that he was not using a substance that he was not allowed to be using. That is completly different than what bonds and giambi were doing. The other major difference in my mind is that when people asked him about it he did not lie, he told the truth and told everyone what he was using.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by Jim Drewes

I'm just correcting this statement, by you:

quote:

McGwire was not using a steroid though!!!!

Also, I understand what you are saying. Bonds is a jerk. He is lying, and trying to confuse the issue. McGwire came clean. But, its not like McGwire is an innocent little puppy dog. He didn't start his record-breaking homerun season by saying "Hey guys.. I'm gonna break the record. But I'm going to use a steroid to help me get there." He tried to fly under the radar as well. There shouldn't be a black mark next to his name in the record books, since the drug was allowed by the MLB, but he DID use a steroid to help him break the record.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by John Ebel

"he was not using a substance that he was not allowed to be using. That is completly different than what bonds and giambi were doing"

Wrong. The substances Giambi and Bonds were using didn't become illegal in baseball until Sept 30 '02 when the new CBA came into effect.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by Jim Drewes

This is fun.

Kurt, say something else so we can tell you you're wrong.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by John Ebel

Although actually, it is reported that the two used the roids in 03 as well, when they were illegal. However, Bonds' 73 homer season in 01 was still when they were not yet illegal, just like Mcgwire with Andro in 98. Bonds tested clear in 04, which may or may not mean anything. His only 'tainted' year (according to the what is/is not illegal logic) would be 03, as far as we know...

It's of course possible Andro was the only roid Mcgwire ever used and he stopped it once it became illegal and his horrendous patellar tendinitis in later years was completely unrelated to steroid use. I love Mcgwire and all, him being a nice guy and the antithesis of that jerk Bonds...but if you believe the above, I also have some land in Florida I'd like to sell...

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by Kurt Hoeman

Sorry jimmy I guess I should have been more specific and said "illegal steroid". Also you both need to understand what a steroid is... It is a chemical classification for a large group of chemical compounds (like an acid or bases). There are many things out there that are a "steroid". Lots of medicines that you take are actually a steroid, but you have no idea of that.

Also I am not positive about the exact chemicals that Bonds and giambi were taking so jimmy I might be wrong again here so you be sure to let me know. I think those substances ( cream and clear) actually bulid muscle mass themselves. Whereas Andro is a chemical your body already produces and it creates more testosterone which allows you to work out harder and longer. I think there is a difference in these two cases.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by John Ebel

not sure about the clear but the cream is testosterone cream

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by John Ebel

Well...some quick research and the cream and clear are both "just" testosterone boosters (and estrogen limiters), ala Andro.

Though Bonds was taking a third that we don't know what it is...

:: Response posted on 2004-12-08 by Kurt Hoeman

Ok I also did some research quickly, and I believe that the cream and the clear situation is different. Their effect is the same as the andro, however they are not chemicals made by the body already. They are similar in structure, however the chemical has been modified, such that in testing it would not show up in the mass spectrometric analysis. So basically they were trying to make it look as if they were taking nothing.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-09 by Stu Belden

Did anyone see the Daily Show on the 7th. They had before/after pictures I though were hilarious. Maybe they made them up, but hey, still funny. Here the are, poorly cropped from a divx rip.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-10 by John Ebel

Kurt - I love Mcgwire and hate Bonds too. But seriously dude, you're really fishin here.

"Okay, so the steroids Mcgwire took in 98 weren't illegal but neither were Bonds' in 01. And both were made illegal later. And they're similar in structure. And they produce similar effects. But Andro doesn't have the slight chemical change to make it harder to detect...So they're completely different situations..."

And you're still assuming that Andro was all Big Mac took, and never when it was illegal. Definitely not somethin I'd wanna bet the farm on, considering the timing and scope of his injuries...

:: Response posted on 2004-12-10 by Woody

has anyone seen the cartoons on espn.com/page2? that shit is hilarious. the latest one is about steriods. bonds head keeps falling off. you should definitely watch all three of 'em. they're great.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-10 by Jim Drewes

Well, McGwire took Creatine as well, but I don't think that its a steroid... just some other energy/body building suppliment.

:: Response posted on 2004-12-10 by dan

no one's going to question why Stu has the Daily Show on divx?

:: Response posted on 2004-12-10 by John Ebel

i wasnt referring to creatin jim

:: Response posted on 2004-12-10 by Woody

is it really hard to get e-copies of stuff like the daily show? i mean...you can get all that kinda stuff. why is there a comment necessary? people in college would have entire seasons of the simpsons and family guy and futurama and stuff. whats the big deal?

:: Response posted on 2004-12-11 by Stu Belden

I have a cable modem. I get basic cable for free which nets me the Discovery and History channels. The next available cable package, which includes Comedy Central, is $50. That, of course, is an insane amount to pay for one show 4 times a week.

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